One of the year’s most consequential elections has yet to take place in Cincinnati, and only roughly 1,600 people are registered to vote.
The Fraternal Order of Police Lodge #69 (FOP), the union representing current and retired Cincinnati Police Officers, will elect its next president on Dec. 18.
Officer Ken Kober, 42, is challenging sergeant Deon Mack, 48, in a historic race following eight years of controversial leadership from Dan Hils.
Kober has served on the executive board of the FOP since 2009, but he’s been in CPD since he graduated from Harrison High School in 1999. His experience ranges from patrolling District 5 to working a canine for the Fugitive Apprehension Squad.
During a sit-down interview with CityBeat, he talked about the need to inspire younger officers to participate in union activities, free speech and forging a stronger relationship with the watchdog groups.
CityBeat: How long have you been on the force?
Ken Kober: Twenty-three years. The first few years I was a civilian cadet.
CB: What does that mean? Like, you were on the force but not an officer?
Kober: Yeah, so, it actually started in the ’70s, ended around 2005. Once you graduated high school, then you can apply for this program. If they hire you, you’re basically assigned to the academy, those are your supervisors. From there, they farm you out to [different assignments], like, I spent time in our inspection section, where they reviewed use of force reports. I went from there to our street corner unit, which was an undercover drug unit to kind of learn what they did, and then ended up at our target range before going into the academy. It really gave you a taste of, is this really a career for me? CB: How did you know it was the career for you?
Kober: The two biggest things for me was one, being able to be out in the public to be able to help the public. In their worst moments, you know, they’re calling the police and asking them [for help] and it’s something that was always just enjoyable to me. It was rewarding. The other part is the camaraderie that we have. I started my career in the beginning working third shift and it’s two different beasts.
CB: You’ve served on the FOP executive board since 2009, what made you want to get so involved in the FOP?
Kober: The reason that I got involved in the FOP as I did was my very first assignment. As a civilian, I was with a guy who to this day is a mentor to me, he was actually Ohio state vice president for the FOP. He was a 30-year Cincinnati police officer. He explained to me from the very beginning the importance of the FOP. He was in the police department when they didn’t have collective bargaining, when they were begging the city to get them equipment, because they were losing cops, [who w being shot and killed constantly. Once they got collective bargaining, he’s like, I’m gonna teach these kids the importance of it. He retired a month before I started the academy, and my first day, he calls me, he goes, “You notice what your badge number is? Look at it.” It was his badge number. Which, ironically, is the area code.
CB: Do you think that younger FOP members, younger officers, come in now with the same excitement for the FOP?
Kober: That’s where, as a leader, we have had to constantly try to recruit young officers to get involved. Because I’m towards the end of my career, and we need young folks to be constantly getting involved and understanding the importance. Once they get the importance of it, you know, some of them choose that, look, this is for me, that I want to do this, and I want to take this path. Others are just like, look, part of the FOP, it’s good, but somebody else should do it.
CB: You’ve served on the FOP’s grievance board, where officers will review disciplinary appeals from fellow officers and vote to either send their appeal to arbitration or not. Do officers tend to get the backing of the FOP in those situations, or is it all case by case?
Kober: We deal with these things on a case by case basis, and understand that just because we are taking something to maybe arbitration doesn’t mean that the officer wasn’t wrong. You know, sometimes it’s a matter of due process. Were they treated fairly? Were all of the steps taken by the city to ensure that they had the due process? Because regardless of what the accusation is, they’re entitled to that. Everybody in America is entitled to due process, sometimes it’s a matter of the punishment that they got, they don’t believe that it fits the [infraction] that they were accused of. We’ve had times where we refuse to take people’s grievances, because what they did was so egregious. It’s like, you did it? What do you want us to defend?
CB: Historically, the Sentinels (Cincinnati’s organization for minority CPD officers) and the FOP have operated separately. If you were to be elected president, how would you proceed with that relationship?
Kober: I’ve spoken to both [candidates for Sentinels president] at length about what we would have to do to completely unify the two organizations, and there’s really no reason not to be unified. I mean, it’s one of those things that I don’t know that either side has ever really put a terrible amount of effort into trying, but the fact that these conversations are going on with people that are running for these offices, it’s encouraging that this is something that is going to happen.
CB: CPD has been pushing for more diversity in the force – only about a quarter of CPD officers are Black in a city where roughly 40% of the population is Black – what sort of value do you place on diversity within FOP leadership?
Kober: What’s important, as far as the union’s concerned, the elected officials are based off of certain things that occur, like you have to make six meetings a year, and you also have to run for office. So, in order to get diversity, you have to have folks that are diverse that show up to meetings. Now we do have a couple of African Americans that are on our board, one of them a dear friend of mine, we were classmates, we’ve been on the board together. He’s been on, I think, the last eight years, he just got elected for another term. He’s made an effort, he wants to come and wants to be part of it. And of course, we welcomed him with open arms. It is important even on an executive board, even if it’s not as diverse as maybe some want, to have different mindsets. I don’t expect everybody to agree on everything. It’s nice to have different points of views, which is why typically the makeup of it, you know, we can’t control who gets elected, or you can’t who runs, but to have different opinions is always preferred.
CB: Your challenger, sergeant Deon Mack, is the first Black officer to run for FOP president in Cincinnati. Why do you think there hasn’t been as much participation from officers of color in FOP leadership thus far? Do you see a cultural divide?
Kober: I don’t think there’s so much a cultural divide, it’s that there’s just a lack of interest across the board. I mean, we have 900 [current officer] members, and we might get 85 people to show up to a meeting. And they’re once a month. When it comes down to it, culture or race has nothing to do with it, it’s a matter of some folks just aren’t interested. They have their off time and want to spend their off time the way they want to spend it.
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CB: Do you think there could be improvement to participation if officers who work third shifts have more access to these meetings?
Kober: Our constitution and bylaws spell out how everything has to be done, like when the meetings are, how many meetings, we have all of these things. I do know that the police department at least, going around to roll calls, most of the districts make an effort if you’re not busy, or if you’re able to, you can come to the meeting on duty and stop by. But I get it, I mean, accessibility has always been an issue. And it’s a matter of the membership would have to ultimately vote to change that constitution, to be able to do things a different way.
CB: Speaking of changes, officers saw a big one this year in the elimination of District 5. The union voted to ask the city to reverse the decision. What do you think about that?
Kober: My biggest problem with the closing of District 5 is the distance between College Hill, Winton Terrace, Winton Place, to the nearest district they are now assigned, is significant. If you’re in District 3 and you have College Hill and Mount Airy, if you work second shift, it may take you 20 or 25 minutes to get to your area. Now I understand the theory behind why it was done, to have to move out of the strip mall. It certainly was not, you know, a good situation for the district. I get that. However, my fear is that the citizens are going to ultimately pay the price when there’s not an officer in their particular neighborhood or that an officer’s there and he needs backup and their backup’s 25 minutes away.
It just came up with the [school resource officer] at Aiken and how she feels like she’s on an island. And they’re asking to have officers to come in and work overtime, like during the school day right after school that’s out, that way she’s not there by herself. So, while I think that it is going to be very, very troublesome, I hope for the best. I know that the chief has committed to monitoring response times and all these things, and it’s just a matter of seeing how this plays out.
CB: Dan Hils, who has led Cincinnati’s FOP for eight years, has been known for using his platform to be very vocal about his personal feelings about current events and politics. Do you think that’s the right tact for a leader of the FOP? How would you bring in your own personal politics if elected?
Kober: I’ve discussed this with several people. And this is what I’ve come up with about this very issue. When you become a first responder, police officer, firefighter, whatever, naturally, your first amendment rights, they’re going to be stricken, partially. Just because of the nature of what you do. You know, the police department has standards, you can’t just go out and say whatever it is you want, put whatever you want to put on social media, understand that. As an FOP leader, or a union leader, it’s even stricken more because there is no difference between Ken Kober, the guy that’s speaking for himself, or Ken Kober, the FOP leader. So you have to be mindful of the fact that whatever you say, you are representing the FOP and every member, and that includes members that are conservative, members that are not conservative, that are more liberal, you represent everybody. And that’s the approach that has to be taken.
CB: How would that leadership and collaboration mindset translate to watchdog organizations, like the Citizen Complaint Authority, which Hils has had a tumultuous relationship with over the years?
Kober: We haven’t always had a bad relationship with CCA. The investigators that are there, I deal with them weekly, they always seem to be very nice, cordial people. The issues that have always been at hand, typically, is with who the director of CCA is. Right now we have an interim director, so we don’t know who the permanent director is going to be. My intention, if I get elected, is that I’m gonna sit down with that director and see what this is going to look like. Because there’s no reason to necessarily have an adversarial relationship. Of course, we may not get along on certain things, and that’s fine, but, it serves no purpose to constantly be at war with someone.
CB: Contract negotiations are coming up – what do officers want? What would you push for as president?
Kober: It is absolutely pay. I mean, I’ve visited every roll call in this city, as I’ve gone through this campaign process, and everything’s been the same. They compare us to another department, you know, this department pays this much money, or, they make significantly more than us – and, typically, those departments have to do significantly less. Working in a major city has its challenges with violence, with the volume of calls that are extremely difficult to deal with. It’s something that everybody that comes here welcomes with open arms, but they also deserve to be paid fairly for it. We have a contract that’s going to expire at the end of April, So, if I get elected, we’re immediately going to set a wage team or we’re going to start negotiating with the city. They know that there’s a problem. There’s a problem with getting people, there’s a problem with keeping people.
The biggest thing that they want other than pay is to have that work life balance. Right now, we are subject to having our off days canceled at any given time. Over the summer, you know, we had Oktoberfest, Taste of Cincinnati, people would get their off days canceled to have to go work. Then you get to the fall, you have the Bengals. I understand the chief’s position is to not want to have on-duty personnel there, which I appreciate that. But those are things that really have resonated with the officers. When I’m off, I want to be off. I’m fully committed to being here and protecting this city when I’m supposed to be here, but my off days, I like to be able to relax, unwind. A lot of officers have families that are not from Cincinnati, they want to go see their families, but that gets interrupted when they have to go work a Bengals game on your off day.
CB: If elected, you’ll be replacing a president who was frequently in the press for controversial statements, who commanded the attention of the city with a very specific viewpoint of what the FOP is about. What would you want people to know about the kind of president you would be?
Kober: For the better part of my career, I’ve been known for just being fair. You know, I have friends all over this department. I could care less, you know, what assignment you’re in, where you work, what your rank is. I’ve represented people from every rank, I’ve represented people that have, you know, you name it, different races, different sexual preferences – I could care less. I want to represent you and make sure that whatever you get is a fair shake, and that’s what has to be done. I want to make sure that your rights are protected as a police officer. And if you’ve done wrong, well, we gotta face it. There have been plenty of times where I’ve represented people, they’ve come to me and they’re like, “Well, I did it this time.” We’re human, we’re going to make mistakes, but the FOP is not going to defend bad behavior.
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This article appears in Dec 13-26, 2023.